Too late for sorry

[Harsea21]

Originally Posted by Niccivan

AYes, the social workers can put some blame on themselves for not taking action when they obviously knew something was wrong. But you still can't take the blame away from the person that harmed the child.

Yes you can put them in jail, punish this sick person, even put him on the electric chair if you want ... but if that person is not even aware of the bad things he's doing ... maybe he's thinking it's "only" a baby ... or "I'm so damn stronger than that little bastard, I'll show him who's in charge in here ..." .... if you know what I mean ...

Hard to blame someone that won't take the blame, cause they are not sane enought to do so.

In that particular context, I think social workers should have done their work properly and now shall take the blame!! IMO

[billynomates]

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”Social workers responsible for the care of Baby P tried to prevent his mother’s newborn child being taken into care against the advice of police, despite the fact it was born in jail, The Times has learnt.

Council officials did not want the new baby – a girl – to be taken into care as they said it was "against the human rights" of the mother, even though she was on remand over the death of Baby P.

A social worker told police: "We need to let her bond," but Scotland Yard officers eventually over-ruled Haringey on the issue. A source involved in the investigation said: “There was no way that police were going to allow this baby to be looked after by the mother

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Nikki! didn't you read this? Even after they knew what she'd done, she had another baby whilst in prison and they said she should keep it her! Unbelievable

[bluffmanxx]

Originally Posted by Harsea21

Yes you can put them in jail, punish this sick person, even put him on the electric chair if you want ... but if that person is not even aware of the bad things he's doing ... maybe he's thinking it's "only" a baby ... or "I'm so damn stronger than that little bastard, I'll show him who's in charge in here ..." .... if you know what I mean ...

Hard to blame someone that won't take the blame, cause they are not sane enought to do so.

In that particular context, I think social workers should have done their work properly and now shall take the blame!! IMO

sorry Rob, it is easy to blame or punish sick fucks like this. just put them in prison, let it me known what they did...and the other not quite as sick fucks will take care of them. most stone cold killers don't particularly like child abusers.

and yes, the social workers share the "blame" for the outcome and should lose their jobs and a review of the department's procedures should be carried out as well. but their responsibility only goes so far as negligence, they did not actually kill the child.

BTW, the "system" here also tends to make all sorts of excuses for bad parents - but this case really crosses the line.

[Niccivan]

Originally Posted by billynomates

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Nikki! didn't you read this? Even after they knew what she'd done, she had another baby whilst in prison and they said she should keep it her! Unbelievable

Yes, I read that. I said that part of the blame IS on the social workers. But in the end, they still aren't the disgusting fuck who killed the baby. Perhaps they could have prevented it, but like I said earlier and Doug just now mentioned, that only proves negligence and they should most definitely lose thier job.

It was wrong to even CONSIDER letting the mother care for the newborn while in prison. Luckily, there was a sane person involved in the investigation and the baby was ont allowed to stay with the mother. Thank God for small favors.

Originally Posted by bluffmanxx

sorry Rob, it is easy to blame or punish sick fucks like this. just put them in prison, let it me known what they did...and the other not quite as sick fucks will take care of them. most stone cold killers don't particularly like child abusers.

and yes, the social workers share the "blame" for the outcome and should lose their jobs and a review of the department's procedures should be carried out as well. but their responsibility only goes so far as negligence, they did not actually kill the child.

BTW, the "system" here also tends to make all sorts of excuses for bad parents - but this case really crosses the line.

I agree, Doug.

[billynomates]

But in the end, they still aren't the disgusting fuck who killed the baby. Perhaps they could have prevented it,

It's their job to prevent it! they knew the child was at risk, the mother obviously unstable- it's not as if they were unaware the child was at risk! A social worker went above her bosses heads to complain about child/sexual abuse aqnd was suspended. There is an accusation now that the day before the baby died her social workers were organising trips to the seaside for her as a treat!

[Night Nurse]

BBC NEWS | England | London | Baby P council is 'truly sorry'

Haringey Council has said it is "truly sorry" for not doing more to protect 17-month-old Baby P who died after suffering horrific abuse.

In the first apology from the council, Liz Santry, cabinet member for children, said there had been "anguish" about what more might have been done.

The government says staff will be held accountable if failings are found.

"Our duty is to protect our children, and we did not do so in this instance. And I would like to say how truly sorry we are," she added.

The statement is being seen as an about-turn for the council, which up until now has resisted making an apology.

On Tuesday, Sharon Shoesmith, head of Haringey children's services, said: "The very sad fact is that we can't stop people who are determined to kill children."

Baby P's mother and two men are awaiting sentencing for causing his death.

In the meantime, a total of four separate inquiries have now been ordered into how Baby P came to die despite being on the "at risk" register and receiving more than 60 visits from health and social work professionals.

They include:

* A government inquiry that will examine the role of all agencies in the case of Baby P including the health authority, police and Haringey Council. The review by Ofsted, the Healthcare Commission and the Chief Inspector of Constabulary is due to make an initial report by 1 December
* An "immediate independent review" announced by Haringey Council to examine its staff's actions and child protection across the north London borough
* A review by the body that regulates social workers, the General Social Care Council, to look into potential breaches of its code of practice
* A nationwide review by Lord Laming of his own recommendations after a similar case in Haringey, when eight-year-old Victoria Climbie was tortured to death in 2000

Lib Dem MP Lynne Featherstone, a former Haringey councillor, tabled a Commons motion calling for an inquiry "to restore confidence in the child protection system in this borough".


While the inquiry takes place, Hampshire's director of children's services, John Coughlan, has been drafted in to take charge of Haringey's children's department.

Haringey said it had moved swiftly to check and strengthen its child protection procedures after the death of Baby P, who cannot be named for legal reasons.

Doug a review into this borough's departmental procedures occurred after the death of Climbie (high-lighted in bold red)... I guess they'll have another review after the next case... after-all "The very sad fact is that we can't stop people who are determined to kill children.", obviously here being on the At Risk Register is as useless as the Social Services not being aware of the child and risk

[kazza1985]

Originally Posted by Niccivan

I just don't understand some people. How can you hurt an innocent child??? It's absolutely disgusting.

It breaks my heart for those children who had/have to go through that abuse. Can you imagine how scared they were while they were going through all that abuse?

I know exactly what you mean. The picture on one of the links was created because the actual pictures of the abused child could not be shown because the bruises and markings on the child were too horrific. My own daughter is 2 and I hate it when she falls and hurts herself....and to think that people can inflict pain purposely on a poor defenseless child is disgusting. In all honesty, the child is better off having died, than continuing to suffer the pain any longer.

Originally Posted by billynomates

Oh and they can't be named as that would be unfair!!!

That just makes me sick! Why does the law have to protect these individuals. They are the ones who gave up their rights when they carried out such a sickening act.

As for protecting the mother's human rights!!!!! What about the child's human rights??? The child's right under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child to receive protection and prevention from abuse and being tortured. The officials are quick to defend the mother's humans rights but they failed to protect a defenceless innocent child.

Originally Posted by Niccivan

Yes, the social workers can put some blame on themselves for not taking action when they obviously knew something was wrong. But you still can't take the blame away from the person that harmed the child. It all boils down to them hurting a baby/child. Yes, the social workers made an awful mistake which led to an even worse outcome. Unfortunately, slip-ups happen and children fall through the cracks of the system all the time. Yes, I would consider that negligence and those people should ultimately lose their job, but it still falls back on the parent or person who harmed/killed the baby/child in the first place.

Both parties are guilty. I don't think America have a seperate convention for the rights of the child but here in the UK we do. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the child provides children the rights to the 4 p's. Protection, provision, prevention and participation (right to make decisions concerning their own lives when they have the competency to do so). The government is responsible under this convention to bring children out of poverty which it has proved to be doing but as far as protection and prevention from abuse obviously isn't working in some areas of this country and this has happened twice now in the same borough.

All parties involved in the death of this child are guilty. The parents caused the death and the council/social services failed to protect the child and so are equally as guilty. The mother, love and lodger will serve their time in prison, but what happens to those involved and failed to protect this child that they have a legal obligation to do.

Sharon Shoesmith, Haringey’s head of children’s services, sits on £100,000 a year, the same woman who said "we can't stop people who are determined to kill their children". Sorry, but bullshit... when they received plenty of warnings and reccomendations to start care proceedings from different professionals such as police and doctors, then they could have stopped this from happening.
This woman also refused to review her department 6 months after the babies death saying "it would add no value to our services". Guess they have no choice now given the amount of extensive inquiries about to take place.

Originally Posted by Harsea21

Yes you can put them in jail, punish this sick person, even put him on the electric chair if you want ... but if that person is not even aware of the bad things he's doing ... maybe he's thinking it's "only" a baby ... or "I'm so damn stronger than that little bastard, I'll show him who's in charge in here ..." .... if you know what I mean ...

Hard to blame someone that won't take the blame, cause they are not sane enought to do so.

In that particular context, I think social workers should have done their work properly and now shall take the blame!! IMO

The man who inflicted this abuse on this child was a sadistic who enjoyed inflicting pain... he was obsessed with it. I don't believe for a second that they didn't know what they were doing. Lying to social services, medical professions, smearing chocolate on a childs face to cover the bruises, IMO are not the actions of someone who does not know what he is doing. In fact the opposite... they knew exactly what they were doing... they knew it was wrong and so took steps to hide what was going on.

oh and they sit in the electric chair here.... we don't have capital punishment.

Originally Posted by bluffmanxx

and yes, the social workers share the "blame" for the outcome and should lose their jobs and a review of the department's procedures should be carried out as well. but their responsibility only goes so far as negligence, they did not actually kill the child.

BTW, the "system" here also tends to make all sorts of excuses for bad parents - but this case really crosses the line.

I disagree. Ok, they did not literally kill the child but they played their part in the result of what happened. This was gross negligence. This wasn't just a little slip up, a little mistake. This was a huge mistake... a mistake resulting in the death of a child that could have been prevented. They could have prevented it.

They received so many warnings. 60 visits from social services in 8 months is a huge amount of times to visit a child. The child was taken in to hospital as a result of these injuries 3 times in the month before his death. The doctor who failed to spot the broken back has been suspended and is not fighting against it.

Baby P was dying ... and I warned them - childminder Ann Walker speaks | The Sun |News

the childminder of this child also told social services repeatedly but they failed to act.

80,000 in call for axe over Baby P | The Sun |News

[billynomates]

The man who inflicted this abuse on this child was a sadistic who enjoyed inflicting pain... he was obsessed with it. I don't believe for a second that they didn't know what they were doing. Lying to social services, medical professions, smearing chocolate on a childs face to cover the bruises, IMO are not the actions of someone who does not know what he is doing. In fact the opposite... they knew exactly what they were doing... they knew it was wrong and so took steps to hide what was going on.

He was a sadist whose hobby was collecting nazi memorabilia, the lodger was living openly with a 15 year old girl (illegal) the baby had already been taken into care once because of physical abuse- these were supposed to be highly trained social workers!!!!!!

[bluffmanxx]

Originally Posted by Night Nurse

Doug a review into this borough's departmental procedures occurred after the death of Climbie (high-lighted in bold red)... I guess they'll have another review after the next case... after-all "The very sad fact is that we can't stop people who are determined to kill children.", obviously here being on the At Risk Register is as useless as the Social Services not being aware of the child and risk

very frustrating, sounds as if the review was more to wash their hands of this rather than to actually find ways of solving the problem. grrrrrrr.

[kazza1985]

Father speaks out about his loss and also more reports are flooding in. We heard in the news tonight how a former social worker sent a letter to the commissioner for social care services resulting in her being suspended and being gagged by the council for her report. This was 6 months before the boy was murdered and supposedly an inspection was satisfied with the way social services was protecting children.

BBC NEWS | England | London | Father of Baby P speaks of loss

Watchdog dismissed whistleblower Nevres Kemal and cleared Baby P council - Times Online