Smack Crack and Pop... DRUGS

[calgaryjimbo]

Oh, DO NOT get me started on Bill 101!

[bluffmanxx]

Originally Posted by ColdCase

By my count - that's three posters saying that "it's a bad thing"
and one saying "Duh?"

If we legalize drugs then we need to do away with so many other restrictive laws that are on the books and open the doors for all sorts of self destructive behavior.

I find it odd that the question of legalizing drugs even comes up in a world where the idea of criminalizing trans-fat in foods is gaining acceptance.

Drugs are bad. Duh.

The issue is complex. Duh again.

The solutions are even more complex. Triple Duh.

I will say this, flooding our prison system with "recreational" drug users does not do much good for individuals or society...so put me down for: decriminalization - yes, legalization - no.

[bluffmanxx]

Originally Posted by luvsluvin

ANNUAL AMERICAN DEATHS CAUSED BY DRUGS

TOBACCO ........................ 400,000
ALCOHOL ........................ 100,000
ALL LEGAL DRUGS ................ 20,000
ALL ILLEGAL DRUGS .............. 15,000
CAFFEINE ....................... 2,000
ASPIRIN ........................ 500
MARIJUANA ...................... 0
----------------------------------------
Source: United States government...
National Institute on Drug Abuse,
Bureau of Mortality Statistics

susan, while i agree in general with both your post and the chart above - i have to question the accuracy of the numbers based on the last number.

Zero seems pretty questionable to me...I've seen quite a few people stoned to the point where they are a danger to themselves and others...i have to think the zero is wrong.

[luvsluvin]

could be... but here's more evidence...

Joycelyn Elders, MD, former US Surgeon General, wrote in a Mar. 26, 2004 editorial published in the Providence Journal:
"Unlike many of the drugs we prescribe every day, marijuana has never been proven to cause a fatal overdose."

The U.S. Office of Applied Studies, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) published a July 2001 report from the Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN), Mortality Data From Dawn:
"Marijuana is rarely the only drug involved in a drug abuse death. Thus, in most cases, the proportion of marijuana-involved cases labeled as ‘One drug’ (i.e., marijuana only) will be zero or nearly zero."


Bill Zimmerman, PhD, Executive Director of Americans for Medical Rights, wrote in a Nov. 15, 2001 email to ProCon.org:
"Marijuana has been used as a medicinal herb for thousands of years, going back to ancient civilizations in Egypt, India and Africa.
In all that time, up to and including the present day, there has never been a report of a fatality directly due to the consumption of marijuana.

Stephen Sidney, MD, Associate Director for Clinical Research at Kaiser Permanente, wrote in a Sep. 20, 2003 editorial published in the British Medical Journal:
"No acute lethal overdoses of cannabis are known, in contrast to several of its illegal (for example, cocaine) and legal (for example, alcohol, aspirin, acetaminophen) counterparts."

Bill Zimmerman, PhD, Executive Director of Americans for Medical Rights, wrote in a Nov. 15, 2001 email to ProCon.org:
"Marijuana has been used as a medicinal herb for thousands of years, going back to ancient civilizations in Egypt, India and Africa.
In all that time, up to and including the present day, there has never been a report of a fatality directly due to the consumption of marijuana.
In contrast, over 1,000 people die annually in the US from an overdose of our most common non-prescription drug, aspirin. In addition, many thousands of deaths result from the legal prescription drugs."

Time Magazine stated in a Nov. 4, 2002 article "Is Pot Good For You?" by John Cloud:
"No one has ever died of THC [marijuana] poisoning, mostly because a 160-lb. person would have to smoke roughly 900 joints in a sitting to reach a lethal dose."

[bluffmanxx]

Originally Posted by luvsluvin

could be... but here's more evidence...

Joycelyn Elders, MD, former US Surgeon General, wrote in a Mar. 26, 2004 editorial published in the Providence Journal:
"Unlike many of the drugs we prescribe every day, marijuana has never been proven to cause a fatal overdose."

The U.S. Office of Applied Studies, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) published a July 2001 report from the Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN), Mortality Data From Dawn:
"Marijuana is rarely the only drug involved in a drug abuse death. Thus, in most cases, the proportion of marijuana-involved cases labeled as ‘One drug’ (i.e., marijuana only) will be zero or nearly zero."

Bill Zimmerman, PhD, Executive Director of Americans for Medical Rights, wrote in a Nov. 15, 2001 email to ProCon.org:
"Marijuana has been used as a medicinal herb for thousands of years, going back to ancient civilizations in Egypt, India and Africa.
In all that time, up to and including the present day, there has never been a report of a fatality directly due to the consumption of marijuana.

Stephen Sidney, MD, Associate Director for Clinical Research at Kaiser Permanente, wrote in a Sep. 20, 2003 editorial published in the British Medical Journal:
"No acute lethal overdoses of cannabis are known, in contrast to several of its illegal (for example, cocaine) and legal (for example, alcohol, aspirin, acetaminophen) counterparts."

Bill Zimmerman, PhD, Executive Director of Americans for Medical Rights, wrote in a Nov. 15, 2001 email to ProCon.org:
"Marijuana has been used as a medicinal herb for thousands of years, going back to ancient civilizations in Egypt, India and Africa.
In all that time, up to and including the present day, there has never been a report of a fatality directly due to the consumption of marijuana.
In contrast, over 1,000 people die annually in the US from an overdose of our most common non-prescription drug, aspirin. In addition, many thousands of deaths result from the legal prescription drugs."

Time Magazine stated in a Nov. 4, 2002 article "Is Pot Good For You?" by John Cloud:
"No one has ever died of THC [marijuana] poisoning, mostly because a 160-lb. person would have to smoke roughly 900 joints in a sitting to reach a lethal dose."

so the chart is for direct overdose cause deaths only?? no indirect deaths included or cases where marijuana was a contributing, but not sole cause??

then maybe...considering that doses are usually small in comparison to say, tobacco.

but the implication from the chart is deceptive IMO, marijuana use is not 100% non fatal when indirect deaths and other factors are considered.

that said, as i stated to begin with we are on the same page in this debate so no sense splitting hairs.

[Night Nurse]

Oops was wrong about Dutch teahouses, they are coffeeshops.

Dutch smoking ban: No tobacco in your joints, cafes ordered | World news | The Guardian

The owners claim the law, which will allow customers to light up potent tobacco-free pure cannabis joints but ban milder spliffs in which tobacco is mixed with cannabis, threatens to put hundreds of them out of business.

Mark Jacobsen, chairman of the BCD, a nationwide association of coffee shop owners, said proper implementation of the law would require inspectors to check each cannabis joint for tobacco content.

"It's absurd. In other countries they look to see whether you have marijuana in your cigarette, here they'll look to see if you've got cigarette in your marijuana."

While some cafes have said they will simply lay on more pure cannabis brownies or "space cakes", others have built smoking chambers within their premises which are off-limits to staff. Some are also providing alternatives to tobacco, such as the herb coltsfoot.

Martial von Beenkom, owner of Boerejongens (Young Farmers) on the outskirts of Amsterdam, has turned his cafe into a smoke-free tea salon where he will sell cannabis on a takeaway basis. "Most people come here to buy their grass which they then smoke elsewhere," he said.

...Last year, the country's 750 coffee shops, half of which are in Amsterdam, were forced to choose between serving alcohol or cannabis. Most chose cannabis.

I want a space cake

Concerning the legality of marijuana in Holland from Wiki

Cannabis remains a controlled substance in the Netherlands and both possession and production for personal use are still misdemeanors, punishable by fine. Coffee shops are also technically illegal according to the statutes but, as has been said, are flourishing nonetheless.

However, a policy of non-enforcement has led to a situation where reliance upon non-enforcement has become common, and because of this the courts have ruled against the government when individual cases were prosecuted.

[Harsea21]

Not all drugs for sure ...

(btw we already have a thread on this somewhere ... )

[luvsluvin]

Originally Posted by bluffmanxx

so the chart is for direct overdose cause deaths only?? no indirect deaths included or cases where marijuana was a contributing, but not sole cause??

then maybe...considering that doses are usually small in comparison to say, tobacco.

but the implication from the chart is deceptive IMO, marijuana use is not 100% non fatal when indirect deaths and other factors are considered.

that said, as i stated to begin with we are on the same page in this debate so no sense splitting hair.

I can see your point. But then you are agreeing that while the chart may seem slightly deceptive. it is nonetheless, still true... right?

[LadyWrestler]

"Should all Drugs be legalised"

With that word "all" in there, I had to vote no.

[bluffmanxx]

Originally Posted by luvsluvin

I can see your point. But then you are agreeing that while the chart may seem slightly deceptive. it is nonetheless, still true... right?

almost sounds like you want a semantic argument about the word "true" to break out.

let's just say the order looks about right and leave it there